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Stephan YaBB Administrator Offline 1-12-56-161 Posts: 395 Munich, Germany Gender:	Re: Tournaments Reply #15 - Feb 16^th, 2005 at 7:44am Really? Seems that my brain is twisted due to too much consumption of nonosweeper
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Yariv

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Tournament Seasons
Reply #16 - Feb 16^th, 2005 at 10:16am

I've updated things, so the new season will start this weekend!

I haven't been able to fully test the "start new season" script, so there may be some teething problems on the first day. I'll fix these as soon as possible when they occur. (I mean if!) Roll Eyes

Except for when I enter the information by hand, the tournaments will be chosen randomly from a pool (max once per season for each grid), or sometimes (25% probability) the grid will be randomly generated.

Let me know any suggestions for grids for the pool, or for changes to the grid selection/generation algorithm.
Good luck for season 2! Wink

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Kire YaBB Newbies Offline Impossible is nothing! Posts: 28 Bulgaria, Sofia Gender:	:) Reply #17 - Feb 16^th, 2005 at 10:36am Hey Yariv I,m very glad you've made that "today" list,but isn't it possible to content "tournament" also?
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Yariv YaBB Administrator Offline I love YaBB 2.5 AE! Posts: 5 Japan Gender:	Re: Tournaments Reply #18 - Feb 16^th, 2005 at 10:42am Yup, I will add that soon!
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Stephan YaBB Administrator Offline 1-12-56-161 Posts: 395 Munich, Germany Gender:	Re: Tournaments Reply #19 - Feb 21^st, 2005 at 10:54am The season thing was a VERY good idea. Seems that new sweepers took the chance to participate at the tournaments! Welcome to Dan and Elmar! Hopefully, Jon and hexx will join as well so that the whole Top10 out of all levels participates at the tournaments!
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Stephan YaBB Administrator Offline 1-12-56-161 Posts: 395 Munich, Germany Gender:	Re: Tournaments Reply #20 - Feb 21^st, 2005 at 8:11pm Sorry, Gero, that I forgot you in my list of Top10 players who should participate in the tournaments!
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Gero Full Member Offline Posts: 152 Germany - Ingolstadt Gender:	Re: Tournaments Reply #21 - Feb 22^nd, 2005 at 12:19pm @ Stephan: It's OK. No problem.
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Kire YaBB Newbies Offline Impossible is nothing! Posts: 28 Bulgaria, Sofia Gender:	Re: Tournaments Reply #22 - Mar 1^st, 2005 at 8:23pm Nice time Stephan Congrats!
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Stephan YaBB Administrator Offline 1-12-56-161 Posts: 395 Munich, Germany Gender:	Re: Tournaments Reply #23 - Mar 2^nd, 2005 at 7:09am @Kire: Thanks. I played more than 2 hours in one session until I finally got that 17. Before, I achieved 19 and 20 more than 10 times each...
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Yariv

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Re: Tournaments
Reply #24 - Mar 4^th, 2005 at 8:11am

As Stephan has pointed out to me, the number of players in the tournaments has increased a lot and it would probably be a good idea to change the points system to give players outside the top 10 more incentive to improve their scores.
I can think of four possible solutions:

1) Keep the current system but have points for more people - maybe something like 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3, 3, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1 or something... in any case I think the 2 point gaps at the top are probably unnecessary, what do people think?

2) Give points to ALL competitors (except possibly the last 1!) with one extra point per place (so the winner will get a different number of points depending on the number of competitors).

3) As 2) but with a fixed score for first place and the other placings somehow (??!!) given points going down to 1 for last place based on some formula.

4) The most difficult to implement, but in my opinion the most interesting: different divisions with a fixed number (maybe 10?) of players in each, with promotion and relegation at the end of each season. This way everyone will be playing against players of a similar skill level and players at the bottom of the table will have something to aim for.

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Stephan

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Re: Tournaments
Reply #25 - Mar 4^th, 2005 at 1:56pm

about 1) I don't think that giving the same points for many players is the best option. The incentive to increase one's time in order to get from #15 to #13 is too low.

The 2-points-gap can be abolished in my eyes (even as long as the current upload system is valid - see suggestion below for details).

about 2) That's the way we acted in Minesweeper's Active Ranking. It's very easy to understand. Of course, it gives some incentive to participate in EVERY tournament, as otherwise, you waste quite a lot of points.

about 3) Would be an idea as well. Why not setting up 20-19-18-17-...-4-3-2-1 for the Top-20? This is not exactly the same than Yariv suggested, but maybe, there should be a limit rank below of which you don't get points. At least, that is an incentive for practising Wink

about 4) Kind of interesting, but I think there would be too much discussion of the starting configuration (as I know already more than 10 persons who would qualify for the Top league).
And - even worse - what about players who detect Nonosweeper freshly? Should they start in the bottom-most "league" and climb up snail-like even if they improve their times very quickly (e.g. like Gero)

And I suggest a no. 5: Counting points in a scheme like those of no. 1-3, but changing an important thing: Players with the same time always get the same final rank and therefore the same number of points. I suggest this as we often have tournaments where one loses points only due to the fact that one has less time to play or something like that. For example, if you play a new tournament not earlier than sunday evening (European time), there might be a top time which can just be equalled as it already touches the "invisible" time limit of a board. As it is counted now, you lose several points. And in my opinion, it can't be the idea of a tournament (whose sessions are one week!) that the one is most likely to win who plays earliest!

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Yariv

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Re: Tournaments
Reply #26 - Mar 5^th, 2005 at 12:58am

Thanks for the detailed reply!

By the way, does anyone object to updating the points system in the middle of a season? How about going back and updating the points scores from season 2 tournament 1?

To respond to Stephan's points:
1) I agree, and I also find it frustrating to move up the table and still have the same points. But on the plus side, it does stop the scores for top players from getting too high.

2) and 3) would both work well, I think. The score totals would get pretty big but I guess that's not a major problem.

4) I think it may be only me that likes this sort of system (I love league tables and suchlike for some reason!), but I'll explain in a bit more detail anyway:
Starting configuration would be decided by me probably based on rankings. Two promotions/relegations each season so the best of division 2 should be able to go up quickly anyway - seasons could be shorter too. But perhaps 10 players per division is too few. Maybe 12 or 15.

New players would start at the bottom. Again, I really like the idea of having to work up from the bottom, but I think the frustration at having to start low would be countered by the fact that the player can lead and win the competition in their own division!
I would rather win division 2 than come 8th in division 1.. Grin

5) is a separate thing, I think, not related to the above, but I could either do that or perhaps upload more accurate times for the tournaments. Which do you prefer?
Accurate times will be fairer, but will they be more fun/competitive?

I don't really subscribe to the idea of a fixed "invisible" limit for a board unless it can be done in about 3 seconds or less... but your point about tied scores is valid. Obviously anyone can play as early as they like, but being in different time zones makes it a bit unfair.

Grin

Anyway, for the points system, please cast your votes:
A) One league - 20, 19, 18, ... 3, 2, 1, 0, 0, 0, ...
B) One league - points for all, one point per place
C) Various divisions, promotion & relegation

Grin

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Gero

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Re: Tournaments
Reply #27 - Mar 5^th, 2005 at 10:22am

I don't like A) because the top players get too many points. If you want that more people get points I would prefer to give them the same number of points with a maximum of 12 points for 1st place (as it is now). And maximally 2-4 times the same points for different places, because otherwise Stephan is right (no incentive to increase the time to get from rank #15 to #13).

I think, the possibility B) isn't a good idea, too, because if you are lucky and you win a tournament, where many people played the winner gets too many points. So this system isn't very fair.

I also like the idea of leagues (C) very much. I think it's the most interesting possibility for tournaments and a great idea. So in my opinion it's the best solution.

As Stephan, I think that the same times should be on the same rank because of the "time problem".

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Stephan YaBB Administrator Offline 1-12-56-161 Posts: 395 Munich, Germany Gender:	Re: Tournaments Reply #28 - Mar 5^th, 2005 at 2:45pm Okay, I vote for C), just due to the fact that it's proably worth an attempt... And I wouldn't have anything against changing the scores system back to T01 of season 2.
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Kire YaBB Newbies Offline Impossible is nothing! Posts: 28 Bulgaria, Sofia Gender:	Re: Tournaments Reply #29 - Mar 5^th, 2005 at 4:39pm (C) I think we will make it easy,interesting and fair with our common efforts(mental)
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