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Cheat (Read 1560 times)
EWQMinesweeper
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Re: Cheat
Reply #15 - Oct 1st, 2016 at 12:34am
 
If you have suspicions about someone else cheating here or on minesweeper.info, please share your thoughts with the rest. As long as it's a reasonable discussion and not something like hexx' posts, it's always worth talking about.

As you can see from your scores still beeing on both rankings, both communities can be somewhat lethargic at times. Trust me, getting something done over at minesweeper.info takes an incredible amount of effort. Getting lucky beginne r games excluded from the rankings was at least 50 hours of work for me, carefully watching many beginner replays, discussions on IRC and writing a report to the community about it. It still took a few months from the first time I mentioned my objection lucky beginner games until they got excluded. Banning Minesweeper Clone after I had stumbled upon "clonebug" took even longer, even though the inner circle of minesweeper.info initially responded very quickly to my first alert. Getting a "prominent" (as in ranked high/often talked about) name removed from the rankings for cheating at this point seems nearly infeasible. The best path of action I can think of would be to start a thread in the Minesweeper forum for each suspected player, discuss it with a clear deadline before the community votes on a decision.

About these 18 clicks per second: Can you still pull this of? If yes, I would be extremely interested in seeing an actual video of it. I used to be able to hold 6 clicks per second over several hours of playing Minesweeper but these days even 4 clicks per secondis tough on my wrist.
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minesweeper: FL1-10-35 NF1-12-43
minesweeper rank: #3
nonosweeper: 1-11-50
nonosweeper rank: 4
 
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Harryck Repse
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Re: Cheat
Reply #16 - Oct 1st, 2016 at 12:49am
 
Oh, there's no way I could get 18 c/s while actually playing a game, just by rapidly pressing the mouse in one spot. In game I could probably do at least 10 clicks per second but that wouldn't translate to extra speed or anything, just quick fatigue

Maybe I'll create some topics on minesweeper.info about players I suspect. I was curious why I'm still on the rankings. I can't be sure about Shen-Jia Zhang but I think it's fairly clear that Stevan's expert score is sped up, there's just nothing human about it.. and I'm one of the few people who believed Mohamed Bardouh was legit (I think you did too)

I used to have a lot more information but it's left my brain over the last few years that I've been away from these sites
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EWQMinesweeper
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Re: Cheat
Reply #17 - Oct 1st, 2016 at 1:03am
 
Incidentally I couldn't have been more wrong about Mo' Bardouh with my initial reaction. Fortunately his videos resolved all doubts about his abilities.

About Stevan and Zhang: This discussion is most likely better suited for minesweeper.info.

Out of curiosity: What time are you capable of the the current board, what would have been able to get at your best and where do you think is the limit? For me it's probably mid to high 19, high 17 and low 16
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minesweeper: FL1-10-35 NF1-12-43
minesweeper rank: #3
nonosweeper: 1-11-50
nonosweeper rank: 4
 
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Harryck Repse
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Re: Cheat
Reply #18 - Oct 1st, 2016 at 7:04am
 
Just looking at the dimensions and density I'd approach it like intermediate, I can't download nonosweeper anymore but I'd guess my potential is sub20 because that's the one type of board I'm decent at
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Lutz
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Re: Cheat
Reply #19 - Oct 1st, 2016 at 9:06am
 
hexx wrote on Sep 30th, 2016 at 8:33pm:
@Lutz: For the first time i have some info about you.
With 154+152=306 you are a hyperclicker too (1.02 clicks/square), in all categories (flags, safe and total). So I'm forced to put your 122s in my cheat list too.

Just think about it for a second: Why would I join this thread without having been adressed and post my stats, knowing you would accuse me right away of being a cheater? Maybe I click a lot, yes, but that might explain why I'm really fast only on big boards with medium density. Just observed my playing style for over an hour: I constantly click even when I'm just thinking. Don't know why, though. Maybe this helps me to stay calm.

hexx wrote on Sep 30th, 2016 at 8:33pm:
One more, the 14x13/140. This one is the current T in play, still missing almost 2 days to deadline. However there is no doubt it will be another large gap from "the three musketeers". Quite honestly Stephan, i'm fed up of "large gaps".

Yeah, I'm not only "musketeer no. 3" but also the world's least ambitious cheater (365 participations, only 21 T wins). Makes perfect sense.

Seriously, I don't know any of the other players personally. I don't even watch their vids. So why would I defend them? Because after spending more than 5,000 hours playing nonosweeper (EWQM and Stephan certainly invested a lot more) I just know that their scores are possible.

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Yariv
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Re: Cheat
Reply #20 - Oct 1st, 2016 at 4:09pm
 
Hi all. As you have probably noticed I haven't been active here for a long time, so I should take this opportunity to thank everyone for keeping the community going for so long. It's truly gratifying for me to know how dedicated you all are to the game!

@Harryk
I've removed your standard records and history. The tournament ones will have to stay because the points/divisions history won't make sense if someone is removed. I've blanked out your name and profile though.

@all
The accusations of cheating by other players seems to be getting out of hand. Suspicions about Harryk turned out to be correct so I can understand that mistrust toward other players might now be heightened as well, but please don't make accusations in the forums without proof. If there are suspicions but no clear-cut proof then I would encourage everyone to air their thoughts here while explaining their reasoning for everyone to discuss, and if several players agree that there's a case of likely cheating to investigate, let me know and I'll see what I can do.
Obviously it can be very difficult to determine whether someone's actually cheating or not, but as has been pointed out, several of the players here have seen each other play in person and I don't find it plausible that they could all be cheating, so if they think times and methods are possible without cheating then I accept that because it's about all the evidence that we can get.
Given that, if anyone really believes that most of the top players are cheating, then unless they can find some proof, it would seem a bit of a waste of time for them to stay here - though personally I just hope that everyone will calm down and continue playing. Everyone is welcome as long as they don't cheat and are respectful in the forums Wink
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Stephan
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Re: Cheat
Reply #21 - Oct 4th, 2016 at 5:34pm
 
Lutz wrote on Oct 1st, 2016 at 9:06am:
Because after spending more than 5,000 hours playing nonosweeper (EWQM and Stephan certainly invested a lot more) I just know that their scores are possible.


@Lutz: Was curious how much time I really invested...
- I currently have 16,369 screenshots of T boards which I finished and which I saved a screenshot of.
- I rounded up all times to the next full second, e.g. both a 1.01 or 1.99 will count as 2 seconds played. (This is a unprecise assumption but saving the screenshot definitely always took longer than the missing part of the full second Smiley ).
- The sum of these screenshots is 449,956 seconds.
- So, this is roughly 7,500 minutes or 125 hours.
- Unfortunately, this calculation doesn't take into account the time invested for unfinished games Embarrassed, but even with a finishing quota of 10% only, the total time would only be 1,250 hours.
- 5,000 hours by my ~600 participations would end up at more than 8 hours per grid. This is probably too much, at least in the last few years.
=> I think I invested less than 5,000 hours for Nono T boards. Maybe my wife wouldn't agree Wink.
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hexx
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Re: Cheat
Reply #22 - Oct 7th, 2016 at 7:15pm
 
@EWQM (Porthos): I still have a few things to say about you but taking into account Yariv's most recent words i won't say it.
Basically i already got what i wanted so it is useless to go further with this situation.

As a recap of our conversation i must tell you that i keep all the cheat accusations against you "Porthos" and Lutz (Aramis).
I was right about Harryk (D'Artagnan), i'm not wrong about YOU "Porthos".
Sooner or later you will "come out of the closet" like Harryk did!

As a side note, i can tell you that i'll resume playing on int and expert and upload any relevant scores achieved.
I'll also play every T in season 76 without uploading. Why?? cause there isn't real T competition anymore thanks to the "gentlemen agreement" between "the three musketeers".
Have a nice day.

I've nothing more to say.
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Nonosweeper records: 1.03 - 9.95 - 43.31 - 124.57&&Minesweeper records: 1-22-74&&
 
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EWQMinesweeper
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Re: Cheat
Reply #23 - Oct 7th, 2016 at 8:53pm
 
@hexx: I won't lower myself to your level and call you a cheater in return. I frankly couldn't care less about the legitimacy of your scores. However, I hereby challenge you to prove your Nonosweeper abilities by video. This means a video that shows both the screen and the mouse.

I just filmed myself playing last week's tournament board. The video is currently uploading to youtube. It took me not even 3 minutes to get a 21.23 on the dimensions of S75T7, which is 1.14s slower than my winning time but still a bit faster than the next best time by Stephan. Considering the lack of warm up, slightly different setting (camera was placed on my desk on some boxes and Nonosweeper window was not in its usual place in the center of the screen), this should prove that you are mistaken.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUSpuNvPHP4

EDIT: If you turn up the volume during the first 2 minutes you can hear Southpark on the TV in the background. The timer in the background is called qqtimer and is well known among speedcubers. The actual solve of the 21 starts at around 2:10 into the video. If you turn up the volume to hear the background sounds, I strongly recommend to turn it down once the 21 is solved, since I start talking at this point.

Now, seeing how I got a top reuslt with next to no effort, what will you show us in return? A sub50 on expert? Sub130 on genius? Sub13 on intermediate? Up for the challenge?
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minesweeper: FL1-10-35 NF1-12-43
minesweeper rank: #3
nonosweeper: 1-11-50
nonosweeper rank: 4
 
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Stephan
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Re: Cheat
Reply #24 - Oct 7th, 2016 at 9:38pm
 
@EWQM.: The video is fine.
Listening to the mouse clicks, I'm quite sure that you clicked more often than necessary (sometimes twice on the same, already opened square, I think). If I am right, this might explain the - according to hexx's video studies - large number of clicks you had in other videos of fast games.
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Stephan
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Re: Cheat
Reply #25 - Oct 8th, 2016 at 11:22am
 
@EWQM./hexx: I have also recorded a video, showing my screen and my mouse - needed to hold the camera in my left hand, so sorry for the bad quality.
It's a 15.16 on S75/T8, which is not so far away from the 13 given the facts that a) I needed to hold the camera in my left hand so that I couldn't use F2 to start new games and b) it was after five minutes of playing only.

The video is available here: vid of screen and mouse (It's nearly 90 MB, so might take a moment to load).

@hexx: Hope this helps stopping with your arbitrary accusations.
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Lutz
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Re: Cheat
Reply #26 - Oct 9th, 2016 at 4:22pm
 
Nice.

I won't be able to play before tomorrow or maybe even Tuesday but then I will upload a video as well.
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Lutz
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Re: Cheat
Reply #27 - Oct 10th, 2016 at 6:28pm
 
Okay, here's the vid. Poor quality, sorry, but I don't own a decent camera. However, the quality is good enough to prove that I'm not cheating, I believe.

https://youtu.be/Jbohgh-827Q

Like Stephan, I chose S75/T8. The first board I solved was a 15.29. At 3:13 I got a 14.33.
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Lutz
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Re: Cheat
Reply #28 - Oct 11th, 2016 at 7:37pm
 
YouTube didn't like that I was listening to the soundtrack of The Lion King while playing so I uploaded the video again on Google Drive:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzxlVBvwBgAHZ0RnbjlGQVpLZTQ/view?usp=sharing
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EWQMinesweeper
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Re: Cheat
Reply #29 - Oct 12th, 2016 at 4:16pm
 
Awesome!
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minesweeper: FL1-10-35 NF1-12-43
minesweeper rank: #3
nonosweeper: 1-11-50
nonosweeper rank: 4
 
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