Simplism Games Forums - Ranking Ideas

Stephan

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Re: Ranking Ideas
Reply #15 - Jan 13^th, 2005 at 3:37pm

1. Good that you tried to implement the new ranking idea.

2. Not good that the average ranking is only available for totals. I thought mainly of level average rankings (a best times site, but not as best ever but as best sum ever). As by now, there are only weighted averaged rankings, we'll have the regular problem with weighted rankings: I can have a wonderful average in expert and genius, but I can predict that Roland will be on top of the weighted total built on averages, as his intermediate and beginner best are much faster than mine, and due to the weighting, it becomes nearly useless for me...

3. Not good that at the moment, not a single player is listed. It will take several days until every player who was listed before will have uploaded a score. And some guys, like Isengrim, won't perhaps do at all.

So, sorry, but I'm not really happy with the current form of my ranking idea...

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Yariv

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Re: Ranking Ideas
Reply #16 - Jan 13^th, 2005 at 9:41pm

Whoops, I managed to screw up the upload script last night, sorry... should be OK now.

I don't quite see the point of a weighted best times list, although if there's a big demand I'll consider it.

You said that "not a single player is listed"... this worries me because they should all be there, although I had a similar problem for a while where the server couldn't make temporary tables. If that problem happens again, I'll have to investigate.
Can you see all the scores now, at least?

So far as I can see, the "problem" with the weighted rankings is that you are not at the top of them - have you considered that Roland deserves to be top with the current scores? What's more, if you upload more scores equal or close to your current bests you can go to the top anyway. In fact, I think the ranking system is working rather well, although I'm open to suggestions for more tweaking. 8)

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Roliamant Junior Member Offline Nono cures Minesweeper addictions as substitute! Posts: 53 Bielefeld, Germany Gender:	Re: Ranking Ideas Reply #17 - Jan 13^th, 2005 at 10:47pm Thanks Yariv. I can see all scores and also thank you for putting the work and time in it. My problem is that it doesn't represent at all my real scores since it only considers my uploaded best times. My real best five are 1x1 4x2 and 2x20 3x21. I didn't calculate the expert score. This makes a rather huge difference I think. ???
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Yariv YaBB Administrator Offline I love YaBB 2.5 AE! Posts: 5 Japan Gender:	Re: Ranking Ideas Reply #18 - Jan 13^th, 2005 at 11:15pm Yes, I'm sorry about the fact that the scores for which there was previously no benefit in uploading are now used in the rankings Unfortunately there's not a great deal that can be done about it except to play some more and upload more good scores! Anyway, I expect most people will be in the same situation...
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Roliamant Junior Member Offline Nono cures Minesweeper addictions as substitute! Posts: 53 Bielefeld, Germany Gender:	Re: Ranking Ideas Reply #19 - Jan 13^th, 2005 at 11:23pm 2x2s in a row and 4 games later another one. So the beginner problem should be fixed. But it still doesn't seem to be changed in the rankings. Does it have a delay time? Gotta go play some Intermediate.
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Yariv YaBB Administrator Offline I love YaBB 2.5 AE! Posts: 5 Japan Gender:	Re: Ranking Ideas Reply #20 - Jan 14^th, 2005 at 1:18am It's supposed to update automatically, but I haven't tested that part yet so thanks for letting me know! I'll try and fix it tonight (I'm at work at the moment)
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Stephan

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Re: Ranking Ideas
Reply #21 - Jan 14^th, 2005 at 4:04pm

> I don't quite see the point of a weighted best times list, although if there's a big demand I'll consider it.

Maybe I don't express myself precisely enough. I'd preferred rankings for each level, built upon the average of some games.

> Can you see all the scores now, at least?

It even worked yesterday evening. Maybe it was a VERY temporary problem. Thanks.

> So far as I can see, the "problem" with the weighted rankings is that you are not at the top of them

That is not the problem. Roland is definitively better in Beg and Int, and in Exp and Gen, I would rate us the same level. So, in total, he would be in front in a ranking of unweighted totals of averages as well.

--

Maybe, it's the best if I give up nagging on the weighted rankings. I will never like them (regardless what position I'm in) as I don't see the utility of playing beginner as long as I get a 1 there. Just a thought: What might be the reason for naming the beginner level "Beginner"? Probably because a player who starts playing Nonosweeper can practice better on beginner boards than on genius boards, and probably not, because a second of improvement is worth 24 times more than a second in genius. But as I see, my point of view is a sole one, so I'll stop with that topic.

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Yariv

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Re: Ranking Ideas
Reply #22 - Jan 14^th, 2005 at 4:35pm

Good point about the level-naming: I agree that a "beginner" level shouldn't really be included in the rankings at all, but as you may have guessed I deliberately kept the names the same as Minesweeper, so I blame that! Tongue

Notwithstanding the ranking positions, I think there's little doubt that the best Nonogram solvers are the best players on Genius and Expert, but I deliberately wanted to make it so that there are other ways of moving up the rankings, to give more variety in the play. I don't see much point in unweighted rankings, not because they don't show who is the best player (they probably do), but because they will almost always be the same as the expert rankings, so you might as well use those.
(Having thought about this, I can now see your point in wanting averaged level rankings, so I'll look into doing that when I have time.)

Anyway, (as with the Best Times listing where I put newer scores first,) I think it's fair to say that I've probably sacrificed a small bit of accuracy/purity in order to increase the enjoyment/interest levels and keep people coming back to the game.

Oh, the trials of being a game writer... Roll Eyes

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Stephan YaBB Administrator Offline 1-12-56-161 Posts: 395 Munich, Germany Gender:	Re: Ranking Ideas Reply #23 - Jan 14^th, 2005 at 10:14pm You're doing a good job, so keep up the good work!
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Luca Guest	Re: Ranking Ideas Reply #24 - Mar 5^th, 2005 at 9:46pm Yariv and all sweepers, What about put players with the same scores in the same ranking position? for ex. gero and I could be both second in intermediate.. do you understand my english and what I mean? Luca
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Gero

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Re: Ranking Ideas
Reply #25 - Mar 5^th, 2005 at 9:56pm

Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean, but I think that we should be ranked on the same place. I'm for example only in front of Luca (Unweighted Totals & Single Record Rankings) because I played the same records a bit later than he did. That's not fair for the one who was faster with this records here it's Luca. So we should be both on Rank #2 (Unweighted Totals) and Rank #1 (Single Record Rankings).

Perhaps it's that what you mean Luca?

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Yariv

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Re: Ranking Ideas
Reply #26 - Mar 5^th, 2005 at 11:16pm

Normally, if two players have the same total, the player with the faster Expert time will be placed higher - I hadn't considered the possibility that two players would have the same time on every level. Undecided

Because of the limitations of SQL it's quite difficult to change the displayed ranking position - I'll do it eventually but for the moment I think we might as well agree that players with equal scores are ranked equally, even if their numbers in the lists don't show that!

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Luca Guest	Re: Ranking Ideas Reply #27 - Mar 6^th, 2005 at 10:51am yes, this is what i meant. and not only in the ranking but also in the "best times" list
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